I was speaking with my best friend yesterday, and who is the only person (other than all of you) with whom I have shared this particular aspect of our life. She and I are very different in certain respects but our personalities in many ways are also very similar. As we were discussing this, I suggested she think about it for herself. And, in fact, was probably already doing it without realizing it. Her partner is older and this would be a second marriage for him. He seeks her counsel on everything from dealing with his children who are older and struggling more with his divorce than expected, to finances to general career path type issues. They are in the gray space my husband and I were in where he seems to want your input and overarching design, but then has some hand wringing about it because he still feels like he has to make the ultimate choice. I suggested as we were talking, that she should just raise the concept of her outwardly taking on more of the decision making and take away some of the struggle in being indecisive.
As I said to her, I am not sure all women or all men are suited for this. I am not a believer that women are inherently superior or better at making decisions. I respect that others may have that opinion or even the contrary, but it is just not my belief. What I do subscribe to, though, is that in certain relationships and at least in mine, that we are better suited to allow me to lead. He has naturally submissive tendencies and wants to serve me and our family in the best and most productive means possible. That, plus me being naturally dominant in certain respects, means this works for us. But I could only lead in this manner with my husband, just as I know he could really only submit to me. My closest friend I think also shares some of those qualities as it relates to her relationship and I am hopeful she may look at the benefit of this.
In any event, that conversation sparked my thoughts about this entry. As I was trying to articulate how things had gotten so much better since we started this, I realized two things. One, submission is not about simply yielding control. It is complex and complicated, and requires a trust that the dominant partner will not just exercise control or authority in his or her best interest alone. There are many men who can just take orders or women who can just give them, but I think the distinguishing factor about the FLR I want to have is that the decision making or control is only a part of it. That he can expect me to be accountable to our relationship by also acting with love and in the best interest of our family. It is not just that I expect to be obeyed in all decisions or otherwise...I do, but there has to be more to it. I have to also be acting in a way that is best for us as a whole so he wants to and can feel safe in the submission. I am not trying to ascribe an ideology to any person, as I understand each submissive male may see submission differently or a dominant Woman may likewise disagree with what I am saying. That is the nature of discussions and I am interested to hear from people who agree, disagree, etc., as this is a complex topic and it is endlessly interesting for me to see how this manifests for others.
The second thing I realized from this conversation was also the change in me from starting this. As I was thinking about his accountability to me or my general responsibility to be mindful of the overall path, I also realized that I am accountable to him by needing to really think through my actions. I was a person who flounced out of rooms when I was pissed. It is a style I developed with my ex husband as well so it is hard to not just get up and slam a door when I am upset about something. However, I did that more recently in the heat of a discussion about something I did not like, and the impact was so different than it had been before. I left him confused and sad, and feeling like he did not know what to do. I felt AWFUL (once I had recovered from my flounce). I just had not really thought through how that simple act would feel to him in this new arrangement. How isolating it was or how unsure it would leave him. So I resolved that I have to think through what I am doing, why I am angry or what decision I might make in a given moment with more depth than ever before. For me, this part is the most difficult--in being a strategic and long term thinker to make sure that I have considered everything in making a decision and to make sure that I am clear in what I want, need or hold him accountable for.
This is the hardest part in certain respects--being accountable to the bigger path. Understanding how to set clear expectations, ensure he is being held to them but also figuring out how to always make sure expectations or decisions are clear. No one is perfect and a FLR certainly does not solve it all, but at least by taking an extra second (on most occasions) to think about the impact of my choice or action certainly has brought positive changes for me too. But it is the part I worry most about, without question. I hope to figure out how to know I am appropriately balancing clarity and my authority and not leaving him feeling like I either A) do not know what I am doing or B) not being dominant enough or nurturing enough of the submission I know he wants to truly give.
Rhiannon, I must say, it is easy enough to pass out accolades for helpful, meaningful and generally good posts, but I have to tell you that this post speaks VOLUMES. Thank you so much. If there were ever to be a college curriculum for FLR/FLM, this post would be in the text book.
ReplyDeleteSince my Mistress K. does not browse blogs on a regular basis, I will be sending her the link to this post via email.
Thank you so much for your excellent passage. I am a loyal, devoted fan of your young blog already and can't wait to see what comes next.
Best,
S.H.I.P.
Aren't you a doll, SubHub. Thanks for all of the kind words.
DeleteHi Rhiannon
ReplyDeleteI found your blog courtesy of a post by Sub Hub in Phx. I have only briefly read your first posts and I love that you are taking the time to chronicle your thoughts. I have recently started out on this journey and I am looking for blogs that I can recommend to my wife so that she can explore this dynamic without being scared off. I have found in the brief time we have been exploring this dynamic our relationship has moved to a new level of love and devotion and is reinvigorationg our 25 year marriage. Please keep writing as I realy enjoy gaining insights into the female point of view. DtBHC.
DtBHC
DeleteI love the use of the term reinvigorating. I find this whole experience to be transformative and restorative too. There is a true beauty in this type of relationship if you can find the right balance, and what works for you. I will hope you keep sharing as yours continues to develop as well.
When we first started this, I was really searching for sites that made me comfortable and where I felt like the premise was love, respect and emotion. The few I found helped me wrap my mind around this, so I am hopeful (as I am now probably repeating myself), that I can now pay it forward and also grow from the truly dynamic perspectives of each person who has contributed.
Hello Mistress Rhiannon,
ReplyDeleteI really enjoy reading your blog. Until probably end of march I won't be able to follow and comment on a regular basis so I just wanted to say that I can really share your thoughts and postings so far. Great to read the postings of a dominant wife who wants to learn and live a FLR as I hope and think my wife is beginning to try to learn and live a FLR as well!
Submissively Phil
Phil,
DeleteThanks for stopping by. I certainly hope as you have more ability, you will contribute when you can. It certainly takes a village.....
Hi Rhiannon,
ReplyDeleteThis seems like a very promising, intelligent and thoughtful new blog and I will be reading it. It sounds like you are evolving into an FLR with DD elements incorporated to modify behavior and enforce obedience. I am constantly amazed at the different approaches couples take to a wife in charge relationship and I look forward to hearing how your own develops. There is certainly no one size fits all. But I do believe there is a basic difference between two kinds of couples. The first are ( not necessarily equal) partners where a wife takes responsibility for administering discipline when needed almost always corporal punishment of some kind, but the husband as partner might lead in other areas but have little to say about discipline except maybe “ yes ma’am”. The other type couple is the FLR where a wife probably doesn’t use corporal punishment but definitely leads the relationship most or all of the time. The first is a partnership where they discuss, she decides and he obeys. The second is strongly wife in charge with corporal punishment often playing little or no role. in the real world probably most DD relationships fall somewhere between those extremes. Spanking is an important part of my relationship with my wife and the main way my wife maintains and exercises her authority. I would not say we were equal partly because there is inherent inequality when someone has disciplinary authority over your behavior but also because my wife is wonderfully talented, resourceful and practical. But we are partners in that I do many things well and she either doesn’t care about those things or prefers me to lead in those areas. Anyway long-winded I am afraid, but welcome to blog-land and best of luck
Alan H
Hi Alan,
DeleteThank you for your kind words. You are right that it is a FLR with some DD components. As you point out, there really is no one size fits all and some days I am not even sure which side of the spectrum we fall on. But I guess that is, in some ways, the point.... Evolving and growing based on each of your unique needs.
Has your relationship evolved over time at all as you submit to the disciplinary aspect of it? Do you find maybe she has increasingly taken a more active role in certain aspects, or maybe it is solely that area?
She has become much more assertive about discipline and the list of things she deems " spank-able" has evolved as earlier behavior issues have been resolved. As I think about it she has become more active in some areas by expanding the domain of what triggers discipline. I have evolved too in being more obedient and I think better behaved. Also the sexual charge has been replaced by deep emotional satisfaction that she disciplines when necessary and I submit to her and don't struggle against her authority
DeleteAlan
Thanks, Alan. That is very interesting. Does she spank you just for punishment or is there an on going disciplinary/authority part of it? Again, it seems like many people do different things and I wondered, if you feel comfortable sharing of course.
DeleteThere is certainly an ongoing authority part to it. Nothing makes her more angry that if she thinks I am challenging her authority - even in a jesting way . The spanking -punishment part is somewhat circular in that if she decides to spank she considers it punishment. Sex from day one has never been any part of it for me or for her. Not for ever but for a while we have had an " anytime, any where for any reason rule" meaning I cannot question her decision to spank and she doesn't have to give a reason. But in reality when I am spanked it it's almost always for breaking an established rule and she makes sure I know why it is happening. But disrespecting her authority is the fastest way I can get into trouble
DeleteAlan
I understand that completely! Did you feel differently when it was the anytime, anywhere? I.e., more submissive or better behaved?
DeleteThe any where any time for any reason rule took it from a "here are the rules you have to obey or there are consequences" to "you have to obey me or there are consequences" She wants no limitations on her authority to spank and doesn't want to hear anything from me except yes ma'am. when she decides. I honestly don't know if it has made me better behaved but defiantly more obedient.
DeleteAlan
Alan,
DeleteThat certainly makes sense! Good luck!!
Hi Rhiannon
ReplyDeleteI am not in a FLR or FLM but it is of interest to me and to others who read my Chastity/Femdom blog. I have added your blog to my read list, I hope this will generate you some additional traffic. Good luck with your blog and your FLR.
Robert,
DeleteThank you very much for that. I will check out your blog, as it is an area we are exploring to some extent. But much like all of this, I sometimes feel totally out of sorts and look forward to reading it! Please feel free to contribute if you are interested or there is crossover.
Hi Rhiannon, just discovered your blog and greatly enjoyed reading your first few posts. Looking forward reading more and getting know about your perspective on FLR from the view of a Woman. My wife and I are still learning a lot about it too. All of the best wishes, J.
ReplyDeleteJ-
DeleteThanks for stopping by. I hope you (and/or your wife) will contribute as time goes on. Certainly lots of people learning and sharing together is always better than an anchorless sojourn.
Awesome Blog Ms Rhiannon. There is a Lot to this FLR thing. The one aspect that has been the biggest for my Queen and I, is Balance, finding IT. Both of you have needs, as well as wants, and of course that leeds down the road of expectations, weather missed or met. You are ahead in this dynamic if you are naturally dominate, and He naturally submissive... Then finding Balance will Not be so difficult. Comunication is huge, finding a certain time and day, when the dominate Partner, can Talk with the submissive Partner, about needs, wants, this will give you both insight into the other, IT also keeps IT real, and keeps missed expectations from being a Problem. For me, being submissive is the emotional side of me, when my Queen ignores that side of me, Isolation is what i'm feeling. The more Power and control she takrs, the more I want to give, and please her. The more dominate she is with me..... The happier I am. We are all different, yes, but Most submissives would love to be able to share their feelings, needs, wants, with their dominate wife.... Happy exploring. Mark
ReplyDeleteMark,
DeleteI should clarify one point about his submission--he is naturally submissive only to me. Our relationship is somewhat unique and started in college, and based on how it was then, specific things kind of happened from that. I may post more on that later, but it is an important distinction. He is a powerhouse professionally and really has only found peace in his submission to me (fingers crossed). So ours may be different than most--we also journeyed for longer periods apart and kind of developed into our own people and then found each other again. But vestiges of our former or maybe real selves emerged again.
I am so intrigued about you finding greater pleasure in the more control she takes. If you could elaborate at all, just as I asked Heart's Desire, I would love to know more. That is really my endless struggle--the right balance.
Have you thought about keeping a journal that she alone reads? We actually do that and it is intended to give him an opportunity to voice issues, concerns or just needs/wants/feelings and gives me a way to know about it even if it may be harder to speak face to face about it. Just a thought.
I think communication is critical. Id be interested in your thoughts on this, but I worry sometimes that communicating or asking how he is sometimes puts more pressure on him? Have you ever experienced that?
Rhiannon, I appreciate that you recognized the importance of clarifying the point that his submission is exclusive to you. That is an important distinction in a FLM dynamic that isn't shared by all couples living in this dynamic. Like your husband, I am dominant is all aspects of my life except for one ... my relationship with my loving Mistress Wife. My primary motivation for desiring to submit to her has everything to do with my desire to continue to live in an environment where I am naturally able to demonstrate of always growing desire for her. It all started for me one day when she casually asked if we would still be passionately lusting for each other once we were empty nesters, or would we end up like so many couples who find that they have nothing in common once the kids have moved on to adulthood.
DeleteMistress K. and I have always been openly sexual with each other, including indulging in each others kinks. Our FLM, for us, was a natural path to go down in order to achieve the continual state of desire that we both sought. We both believe that left unattended, my own control of my orgasms and sex would slowly lead to continued masturbation in the shower most mornings, which would lead to a general lack of desire throughout our normal existence. My goal in my submission is for Mistress K. to be able to achieve as much pleasure in her life as is possible. Yes, she is my dominant and although I am subject to her wishes, desires, commands and preferences at any given moment, neither of us is interested in defining what we have by any other measure than what we she decides with be a source of her pleasure. Our path to that discovery leads us to many different joyful things that we never even considered when we began.
My willingness and comfort to submit myself completely to my Mistress Wife has everything to do with the trust I have in her to lead us safely to where it is we ultimately will happily end up. "Safely" in our relationship is defined by us as truly being in a joyful places with our understood and committed roles we have assumed for the purposes of our mutual joy.
What a journey!
Thanks, SubHub. That is a very eloquent and true way to describe this. It is what I want as well, and think we are working towards.
DeleteOne of the things that has helped us (well Mistress actually, which in turn helps us) was her becoming comfortable with the knowledge and understanding that I was not only willing to do the things she would've otherwise be hesitant to command, require, enforce, etc...... during our "vanilla" married life, it was an honest-to-goodness source of joy and pleasure for me. She has always been the very sweet, loving, accommodating type but once she knew that the things she was withholding, dominance wise, where the very things that were a source of joy for me, it allowed both of us to start to learn how to settle into our lifestyle and simultaneously experience the joy of our life together.
DeleteI hope that makes sense.
That is really a turning point. Realizing that mine really thrives on it and wants to help/serve and brings joy and peace. It is hard to give over responsibility, etc. and not just feeling like you are impinging, but it makes things simpler for both of us.
DeleteOne of the struggles I think is just guilt to some extent, and not feeling like you should add more to anyone's plate. But there is a difference between foisting it on someone and giving it to someone who wants to genuinely help. I think this shift in thinking--that it is a source of joy for you is so beautoful and also reassuring for us learning the ropes on this. Thanks so much for the insightful post.
Hi Rhiannon,
ReplyDeleteI agree with the comments that your relationship has a lot of advantages if you are starting from a position where you are naturally dominant and your husband is naturally submissive. While I'm sure it's not always easy, at least you are both playing to your natural inclinations. As you pointed out in replying to a comment I left on an earlier post, for me it is a struggle to implement FLR, because I am not naturally submissive. And, while my wife is becoming a stronger and more powerful person all the time, that isn't where she started. So, for us things move in fits and starts. But, for me it is an effort to reach that "balance" that Mark refers to above, but in us as individuals, not just in the relationship. I very much recognize the stress or pressure of the "accountability" you are feeling that comes with a leadership role. Honestly, I suspect it is a major reason why so many Alpha males are, paradoxically, attracted to being the submissive partner at home in the context of a DD relationship. There is a certain comfort in giving up that leadership role. Yes, it means we are accountable to our spouse for our behavior but, as you are feeling, there is a certain freedom in yielding control and a certain loss of freedom in taking on the mantle of leadership.
It's all a work in progress. Good talking with you.
Dan
Dan,
DeleteThanks for the thoughtful post. As I just explained earlier, his submission is actually pretty unique to me. But again, that is just our dynamic, so certainly it makes it easier in that way. But there is something about learning to balance beyond your relationship, and as individuals.
I was actually thinking about a discussion awhile back about how living in this thing we do might impact your outside life (I believe it was in the context of your work life). As I was directing the work of different people today (most of whom are men) and watching their reaction to how I speak to them, it struck me that this can be a hard balance to strike as an individual. The individuals who are subordinate to me actually seem to react better to me giving them clear expectations, explaining what I expect and holding them accountable for it. But as I got a snarky email from a client who was--without question--in the wrong and had not even taken the time to actually read what we sent him before replying disrespectfully, I almost lost it. And admittedly thought, I wish I could cane him for speaking to me/us like that.
It was just interesting to me that this part of what I am doing more privately has started to bleed into my more individual personality, and in some ways is positive. But, in others, maybe is creating an expectation outside of just my husband as to how I wish men in general would act.
I appreciate the contribution, and am thankful for the forum and cooperative nature of your blog, in which it was one of the places I felt safe to learn or at least start to lean about all of these complicated topics.
I think our work and private lives are often symbiotic like that. My wife has a job in which she is, to a certain extent, in control of a lot of people. And, as she has progressed at that, she has brought some of it home. But, less so than I she or I want. I don't know why she can do it at work but has a harder time stepping into that role at home, even though it is what we both want. I think some social conventions are just hard to overcome.
DeleteBut, you're right, it is interesting how people are, truly, just hard-wired to either thrive on or chafe at being told what to do. I have an almost pathological aversion to it. In your exchange with your client, I would have reacted just as you did, with the desire to beat their butt! And I am usually on the receiving end of such things. ;-)
On the other end of the spectrum, there is a subordinate on my team who really struggles when given an open-ended assignment or when a request is phrased as anything but a directive. But, she seems to thrive on it whe she is just told what to do. I got really frustrated last year when I would ask her very nicely to do something, ask if she had sufficient available time, give her a lot of freedom to do it, etc., then I would check in a week later and absolutely nothing got accomplished. I talked to another manager she was doing work for her, who advised, "Yes, it's strange with her. She works 100% better, and seems far happier, when just tell her what to do. Don't ask. Tell." And, he's right. Once I removed more of the discretion from the process and just gave her an instruction, she actually seemed far, far happier.
And, while I remain pretty dominating and controlling at work, it may be that some of that is starting to change. I have a customer who has a team tthat is lead by a younger woman (probably late 20s or early 30s), who has a very assertive side. In fact, if she's not a Dom in practice, she sure is at heart. She's not rude. Just direct, assertive and somewhate abrupt, in a way that isn't typical of women, or men, her age in this profession. And, a part of me does, undeniably, get a charge out of it. So, why do I react differenty to her than to others who might try to boss me at work? It's probably a combinaition of: (a) she is a woman, so less Alpha male marking of territory is involved on my end; (b) I respect her; and (c) there is a natural assertivness in how she handles it that is hard to describe. You can tell it comes from a place of strength, not insecurity. A lot of the boorish bosses and others we meet in life aren't that way because they are naturally leaders. Quite the opposite. They are chronically insecure and act tough and demanding because inside they are weak and live in constant fear.
Thanks for the kind words. I'm loving our blog!
Dan,
DeleteAgain, thanks for the great contribution. I will say I have been in a supervisory role for some time in my career, and yet I never would have brought it home, until that's where we were. It is so much easier to tell individuals what to do that you do not get into bed with at night!
I also think some of what you said earlier about being an Alpha but wanting to relinquish some of that control happens for the ladies too. And, as you also point out, social conventions are what they are. I am in some construction, excellent at my job, assertive, aggressive or a bitch; depending on which side I am on and what the particular client/opposing party sees at the time.
it is funny that you relay the story of the woman who is bad at the open ended assignment. I had the same experience with two of my most favorite male subordinates. We had a pretty fire drill type issue a month or so ago, and I assumed they would, like I would have, just handled it and gotten it done/checked in as necessary. I HATE to be micromanaged so I assumed they would too in a more pressure filled environment, and they are usually pretty good at being responsive. But this involved a slightly different type of assignment and they both spent all fucking weekend spinning their wheels, only to tell me Monday (when I expected a finished project) that they had nothing. It killed me. Because I know they can do it, but they needed me to tell them to check in, to update, etc. and from that point, that is what I have been doing. All clear expectations and deadlines. Not mincromanaging per se but just setting out the boundaries. And if I do say so myself, they are thriving. Anticipating what I might need in the structure I gave them, communicating and getting the urgency of it, as well as feeling ok to ask if they need help. It is fascinating to me how certain people just respond better to this, or when you give them no choice (because you supervise them), they just do it. In a marriage, it may be the same, but is so much harder because you have the realities of just living in the same space as someone and having the emotional connection or responsibility to his/her well being that is less present professionally.
You also raise such an interesting point about strength v. insecurity. I have almost exclusively worked for women in my career. There are a few particularly Alphas (males) who I worked with when I was younger and seemed to love me just being assertive or on top of it, but as my practice has specialized much more, I am in highly male dominated fields but with teams of higher level women and much younger male subordinates. Believe it or not, I still get the occasional, hey, get me a cup of coffee honey from some other side. It usually does not end well for said Rip Van Winkle.
The women I have been able to really respect and work with are those who are strong, not scared. Insecurity is often masked by boorishness or some shit about bootstraps and how it was when they did it that I am too old to digest. (Yes, I typically swear like a sailor). In some ways, I wish each person could just embrace what works the best for him or her, instead of all of the smoke and mirrors. I know people do not always know what they want or need, nor is it always a perfect crossover, but oh how I wish...
I really enjoy your description of how you react to the customer team lead. Men who can respect and appreciate women who are assertive or powerful are truly a gift. But, it is rare. At least for me, I found that there was a lot of talk about how my education or profession was such a turn on, until it wasn't. In my experience, men who are Alpha in some aspect of their life are the most likely to recognize and appreciate that, which is paradoxical perhaps but also makes sense. I dont mean to generalize, but that is at least my experience. It takes a certain kind of man to appreciate any form of female power.
The more you and I talk, the more I think I am a male version of you. We seem to be leading parallel professional lives. I've had that exact same experience with thinking that my aversion to micro-management is shared by others. I wonder sometimes whether some of it is generational. I grew up in a generation where kids where shoo-ed out the door in the morning and they ran around the surrounding area unsupervised until dinner time. The Millennials, however, have had every minute of their lives scheduled for them in minute detail since the day they were born, in a delivery that was itself likely scheduled in advance. I used to think they were lazy and just not very focused, but I've come to believe that they somehow manage to get through college and grad school without ever having the experience of managing their own calendar.
DeleteDan,
DeleteI agree we have some striking similarities! It is really difficult professionally to manage in the way they need rather than what you want. I think that is what I get at in some of my struggles too--that I want to find what will be best for him, and by extension, then me. Me trying to manage the younger set with how I do it never worked, but figuring out the way they react best has brought much better results for my life. And its not topping from the bottom (or at least I dont think so) because part of our job professionally or personally is to nurture and bring out the best of the other person.
I agree it is generational to some extent, although I am probably in between the two. I am not sure what the mid 30s are anymore, but I am sure as hell not a millenial. It kills me how put out they always seem to do their job! Not all of them of course, but sometimes I kind of just want to scream in managing more and more of them. For that group in particular, focus on time and real management is such a struggle. I would have HATED to be given tasks in the manner I do now, but they all seem so much better for it. Different strokes, I guess.
"Different strokes" indeed . . . and a nice pun given the DD context of your blog. :-)
DeleteThought you might appreciate. I think discipline is going to be my next topic, and drawing on some things from your discussions. Hopefully you will continue to contribute!
DeleteI saw your latest on "balance," which has been not only an ongoing theme in my blog, but was really the entire reason I started exploring DD. I'm tied up the rest of the day but will try to contribute something tonight or tomorrow at the latest.
DeleteLooking forward to your perspective! No rush though. I dont plan to take this blog down quite yet. :)
Delete