Monday, September 7, 2015

Seeking Perspectives on Reinforcement

I have noticed "reinforcement" has come up in several comments, and thought it might be time to discuss it.  This is not a new concept by any means.  Most of us employ some version of this in nearly every aspect of our lives- in teaching kids about consequences or goals, in the workplace with constructive (or otherwise) feedback or just in interacting with people on a day to day basis.  We do this almost unconsciously in most circumstances- smiling at or thanking the person who bags your groceries because a) it is polite and b) you want him to remember you and maybe not put the cans on top of the eggs.   But these smaller interactions seem easier and more natural somehow than when you try to sit down and think about how to really make it work in a marriage like this.

I suppose it is like that with everything--it is easy and reflexive until you are cognizant of it and then it becomes a thing. It reminds me of the old Looney Toons where Wiley Coyote did not realize he was over some hugs chasm until he looked down.  But here we are, looking at reinforcements critically and putting each action we take into sharp relief.

Positive reinforcement should be easy.  But even that can take on a new meaning in a FLR.  Several bloggers point out that thanking a man undercuts the concept that it is a privilege or joy to serve. I am not sure where I come down on that.  It is similar to using please in my commands, as I know some would see that as not part of being dominant, but sometimes I like to include it when I am telling him what to do.  But as I just wrote about, there is no one size fits all so if saying please and thank you works for you, then it works.

If you do not use traditional concepts like saying thank you, how is it that the positive reinforcement happens? One way is to acknowledge a job well done or to tell him he has done well.  But are there others? What works for you in confirming positive behavior? I would be interested to hear from men and women on this issue.      

Stopping negative behavior is at once easier and more difficult.  Punishment in whatever form you use is straightforward.  There is a consequence for a missed task or back talk or whatever else has come up.  It requires staying on top of the expectations and consistently reinforcing the consequence, and the hope is that the dislike of such consequence will keep him from doing that again.   People have varied views on what appropriate discipline or punishment should be. Some use traditional corporal punishment either with specific infractions or as more of a constant maintenance.  Some religiously use corner time.  And I am sure there are many things I do not even know about.

My failing in that is always staying on top of things and in not being as creative as I would like in that arena.  It can be difficult to manage every task or expectation, so for me, I usually reinforce on the bigger ticket items and maybe let some of the smaller ones slip.  I know that increases uncertainty and makes it a little murkier, but that is just the style I employ.  I am not sure I could manage every single behavior or task with constant reinforcement either way--it seems like a full time job.

I have always thought a punishment fitting a crime makes the most sense, but I admit I have never washed his mouth out even if he did not speak as respectfully as I would like.  I also have read some people keep a journal of infractions that gets presented and addressed. I have no idea if this works, but if you do, please share.

There is also the subtext of stopping it before it gets to a problem level, and quelling misbehavior before a full blown punishment is needed.  That one I also have not quite yet mastered, but I suppose it really is just stopping the misbehavior with some carefully chosen words.  In any event, this particular blog post clearly reveals the depth of things I do not know and that could benefit from other perspectives.

Being newer at this, I am still trying to find my footing on how to exercise appropriate reinforcement all the time.  And as both positive and negative reinforcement is a cornerstone of making this work, I would like to open this up to you.  If you are a submissive, what is the most effective form of reinforcement and how does it happen.  Do you react better when its preemptive or to certain words? Do certain negative consequences help you avoid infractions more? If you are a leader, how do you use positive and negative reinforcement most effectively? Are there certain punishments you find most effective?  Please feel free to contribute.  There may be no "right" way, but benefitting from each other's experiences and knowledge seems like a pretty great form of community sharing.

22 comments:

  1. For us it is the fact that I truly hate to let her down. When I fall short of her expectations, all it takes is a look of displeasure from her. I know that I am really in trouble if she speaks her displeasure. This hurts me more than any other punishment would. The good side is that I seldom get in trouble. My wife wants an obedient husband and that is my goal, so it is not hard to accomplish most all the time.
    For the positive side I get love, praise, and plenty of attention.

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    1. Thanks, DLsKnight. This is a beautiful post. Is there anything she did to particularly engender that as the ultimate goal?

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  2. My wife uses both shame and pain to reinforce. Both of these have evoloved over several years experience with adult discipline.Shame can be wearing a pair of tight fitting feminine panties for several days after a spanking to remind me what happened. It also can be a spanking in front of my brother and sister in law, and it can be long periods kneeling in the corner, pants down nose to wall.Pain can be use of the cane which is reserved for repeat misbehavior or it can be ( worst of all) being spanked after orgasm. She mixes these up and combines them so I never know what is coming. She also uses what she calls preventative spanking which is administered before certain holiday parties and family events..Preventatives are more as you say "stopping it before it gets to a problem level" but they do reinforce her standards and expectations.
    Alan

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    1. Thanks for contributing, Alan. I also agree with the preventative approach, although it is usually really just a reminder because he typically does not need a real punishment spanking. But as I have blogged about before, I do maintenance spankings with more regularity so he may not need a big one because he has more frequent spankings.

      Are your brother and SIL also in this type of relationship? I am just curious as to why you would be spanked in front of them.

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  3. When we are "practicing" WLM it is a true spanking that seems to keep me in line. i have a love/hate relationship with this discipline, it truly hurts but i feel much more obedient and submissive as well as loved. i would love to incorporate the maintenance spanking to keep my obedience tenderly near. A word of encouragement is also good as well as enjoying a "reward".

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    1. Thanks, anonymous. I think spanking can definitely improve a relationship. You said true spanking so I wonder whether there are other kinds, and how she differentiates.

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  4. Mistress Rhiannon,
    The words my wife uses has the biggest impact on me. For example a "good boy" goes a really long way. Any small word that she sometimes doesn't even recognize as showing her position can send me over the top. The word "let" has a huge affect on me. "I allowed him" when she is talking to my mother in law makes me want to thank her. Of course command words but those are meant to show me my place. The ones that push me over the edge are the ones that have become part of her everyday conversations.
    Thanks
    In awe of Rhiannon

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    1. Thanks, In awe. Language is incredibly powerful. I appreciate you providing some real examples of what works for you. I really enjoy learning about what others do and what works.

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  5. My wife has stated she expects obedience in all areas, all the time, with no argument. She is like you though, in that she let's small things slide (partially due to being busy). However, when she punishes, her most effective methods are corporal punishment, removal of privileges, and writing sentences.

    Now the thought of punishment is sexually exciting to me, but when punished, the excitement quickly vanishes because she is very thorough in all these methods. For instance, when I'm spanked, I'll often be given 200 hard swats with a paddle or cane and I don't find it exciting when I'm experiencing the reality of the pain. With lost privileges, I will be on restriction for months and with writing sentences, the numbers are in the hundreds.

    So to me, I don't think it's the method of punishment that makes it effective or not. It's the severity. When the severity gets past the husband's excitement level, and then keeps going, it is effective.

    Thank you for your great points.

    slave j

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    1. Thanks, J. That is a very important point that it has to do with severity and getting past whatever either does not have an impact or is exciting in some way. It is what makes it a punishment I suppose. Please keep contributing.

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  6. It sounds odd, I guess, but i get positive reinforcement by being taken for granted. I do housewife stuff pretty much all the time -- my Mistress does literally no housework -- and when I finish a set of chores my Mistress simply takes it as a given. She may remind me of something I need to do next, but more often she simply says nothing and expects me to know what to do, and get on with it. We have both learned that taking my work for granted reinforces my status as servant and her status as my superior. For example, I recently spent several hours cleaning a storage room and thoroughly dusting vacuuming our entire (very large) house. When she emerged from her study, I was about to finish the last section of dusting. She simply said, "You can finish that later. I need an early dinner, so get started now." So I cooked and served a quick dinner. Somehow her matter of fact attitude thrilled me to my core. It reinforced my submission and made me feel owned and valued. For me, absence of criticism is a positive reinforcement, an acknowledgment that I am doing what is expected of a servant.

    If she had expected the dusting to already be done (and that could easily happen) she might have criticized or berated me. And of course I would be required to remind her at confession of my shortcoming. I wrote about our confession ritual in response to your previous post.

    The nightly confession is highly ritualized. We have one other daily ritual, which occurs each morning when I serve her coffee in bed. I kneel and rub her feet while she sips coffee, reads the newspaper, checks her smartphone, tells me details of her coming day, and so on. Sometimes she takes a moment to review my list of chores, if she feels it might be necessary, and to add things that I might not be aware of. But often this is not needed because my chores are written down as part of a contract, and it is basically self-policing. The morning ritual, in which she might set certain priorities or add certain things, is the only supervision I get. The rest of the day I'm on autopilot -- I simply do what I have to do, knowing that I am required to be thorough and efficient in my work, and that I am required to confess to my Mistress any shortcomings or failings during our bedtime ritual.

    Our contract, which we revisit every two weeks for fine-tuning, is designed to shield my Mistress from the burden of micromanaging my behavior. I know my duties. I am responsible for prioritizing them with her comfort and convenience in mind. Mundane chores such as cleaning or laundry should not interfere with attending to her daily needs -- serving drinks, giving footrubs, etc -- so I have to plan my work around her schedule, making myself available for personal service when she gets home from work. It is all a matter of planning and communication. And of course, I am required to confess my failings daily and request punishment for my shortcomings or my laziness. She is punish or not punish, as she sees fit. She rarely beats me, but it is always a possibility, and I take it seriously. We both love this arrangement -- it works for us, and it is surprisingly erotic. Every day is like an elaborate and detailed session of foreplay involving, in my case, lots of vacuuming, ironing, and cooking. And unfortunately, often a good dose of denial.

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    1. Thanks, Brian. As always, I appreciate your contribution. You taking the time to prioritize is a great point. That does impact the micromanagement aspect of this, and is a really great trait for a submissive to have.

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    2. Thank you. I've learned from a failed "vanilla" marriage that prioritizing one's day with a partner's comfort and convenience in mind is what loving people should do for one another. Love is not just a sentiment -- it is an act. My relationship now is based on my personal belief in female superiority. I realize not everyone believes as I do. It's just a personal belief. I think of myself as a slave to my partner, and we are not equal. I consider her superior and deserving of attentive service. My personal belief is that, as a superior woman, she should in no way serve me. It is a one-way street for me now, and I love it. It is hard sometimes, but generally speaking, service is its own reward. It feels like penance, as though I'm atoning for all the struggle my Goddess has to put up with in a male-dominated society. For me, it has a quasi-religious aspect. I literally worship her. That is what keeps me going, and it keeps our love very much alive and vibrant.

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  7. Once again, a very insightful post, Rhiannon, giving a number of different perspectives their due. To each his, that is, her own, but I disagree with those who feel that thanking a man undercuts his attitude that it is a privilege to serve. My wife is very big on courtesy and manners. She almost always says thank you when I comply with her. It's the firmness and the total expectation in the tone of her voice that lets me know what she's saying is not negotiable. I like this because I've come to like the atmosphere it creates in our home. I'm older than she is and lived as a bachelor a long time. I was never all that vulgar, but I never paid a lot of attention to how I said what I said or even how I acted, as long as I wasn't extremely obnoxious. My wife has slowly changed that. She doesn't like any cursing or insulting ad hominem criticism, and I've tried to comply. I'm getting a lot better at not being an a-hole.

    The idea of appropriate punishment is pertinent here. My wife tends to favor what she calls a "reparations" form of punishment. That is, whenever I make a mistake, the first thing I have to do is to reverse it or change it in whatever way I can. For example, if I'm rude to a friend or even a peddler who comes to our door, she'll make me get this person's number and she'll stand right next to me as I apologize over the phone. Making amends according to the infraction is always first, followed by some other punishment that again fits the crime, such as reading a book or books on courtesy within a certain number of days and writing about what I've learned. I'm just using manners as an example; this technique, more or less goes for anything rule I might break

    As for praise, it can be verbal or more material rewards. She controls the finances so she'll let me spend more on my interests or hobbies if my behavior warrants it. But having said all this, she really doesn't micro-manage. She'd consider that too exhausting and she figures that I ought to know what needs doing the vast majority of the time. So far, it's working for us.

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    1. Thanks, David. I really appreciate the specific examples. That is a great idea re fixing it first and then a punishment that fits the crime. It is also interesting to use that system as part of the rewards---i.e., you can do something you like when you have earned it. I will have to work that into my positive system much more

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  8. My wife and I enjoy reading your blog. Your insights have definitely helped to improve our wife led marriage (WLM). That’s why she gave me the go-ahead to (anonymously) respond to your post.

    My beautiful, feisty, redheaded wife is a stay-at-home mom and the head of our household with the final say in all matters. My wife and I were always dominant personalities which resulted in a lot of conflict and animosity between us, but it was her dominance that eventually prevailed in our relationship. Her taking control of our marriage was a BIG change for both of us to accept, but we both now acknowledge that our marital relationship has been transformed beyond our wildest expectations (in a good way) with her in control. Our WLM has been slowly developing over the past two years, but we made it “official” a few months ago by amending our marriage vows (I’ll gladly submit a copy of our WLM vows if you’d like).

    My wife references the latest version of “Real Women Don’t Do Housework” as her guide for our WLM. She bought me the E-book version of “Worshipping Your Wife” as my guide.

    Over time, my wife has become comfortable wielding her erotic power and loving female authority in our relationship, but she doesn’t feel comfortable not saying “please” or “thank you” when telling me what to do. However, in bed she’s very explicit about what she wants without any niceties. Either way, she’s always very sexy and exciting! I do like it a lot when she silently exerts her authority with an impish glance though, like when she stands by a closed door until I open it for her or when she holds up a cup in her hand until I fill it for her or when she puts her feet up until I begin massaging them for her, etc.

    Our mornings begin with me reaffirming this to my wife: “I pledge to love you, respect you, obey you, submit to your will and strive to please you in everything I do today.” This morning ritual is something we both look forward to and it really helps to start the day off right between us. My wife always says “thank you” after I finish my pledge, and that positive reinforcement makes me feel appreciated and loved by her.

    I think a very effective form of daily reinforcement is when my wife caresses my crotch to get my attention and to let me know that she’s pleased with me. She also caresses and teases me almost every night in bed during our nightly “conversation” where we review how I pleased (or displeased) her that day and talk about any other topic she desires. I really look forward to our nightly “conversations” too! Sex is ALWAYS about her pleasure first, so her allowing me an orgasm is definitely the most effective way of reinforcement. She brings me to orgasm about twice a week, IF I earn them and IF she’s in the mood, but my wife has the final say in all matters and she decides when, where, why and how we have sex and my releases are ALWAYS dependent on her mood and schedule!

    My wife has two very effective preemptive approaches of control. The most effective way is by her completely controlling my orgasms (she forbade me from self-pleasure). This control over my orgasms makes me VERY eager to please her. I also love the way she compels me to stop talking and obey her by pursing her lips and bringing her index finger backward to touch her lips. She doesn’t even have to “shhh” me, because I immediately get her non-verbal hint. It’s very sexy when she exerts her erotic power and loving female authority in these ways (and many other ways too)!

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  9. Excellent and well thought out comments/Blog. Thank you so much for posting. Health and happiness to you and your partner.

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    1. Thanks, Gman. Please keep stopping by and contributing!

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  10. Interesting post and comments, thank you.
    My Wife's most effective positive reward, of course, is some sexual attention (regardless of outcome). We are not as hard-core as some other couples, i guess, and i do get (and appreciate) an occasional "thank you" or "please." But not always. It really is more of the TONE as She says it, and maybe with an eyebrow raise, that really makes it clear and effective.
    Negative reinforcement includes spankings. But ignoring me or showing displeasure is certainly very effective. sara e

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    1. Thanks for contributing. I also try to say thank you or please sometimes. And certainly my tone indicates how I feel about something. I also can ignore him, but I find that has more of a negative consequence and does not necessarily "clear the air" because there is lingering hurt. A spanking is much quicker and addresses most issues.

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  11. Rhiannon, I really want to contribute to your blog, I am not sure I am doing this correctly or not. I have been into WLM for many years, and I think I have experience that would be interesting . Please let me know if I am doing this correctly. On the hope that I am doing this correctly I will offer this tidbit. I prefer my wife to tell me what to do,rather than ask me. The telling doesn't have to be harsh, I like to be told unless it is something expected of me as an everyday compliance. Dishes, make the bed , etc.
    James

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  12. Hi Backnine: Thanks for contributing. I have to approve the comments so sometimes it takes longer for me to upload a post. I would encourage you to keep contributing, as I would really like to build a community where difference perspectives are discussed, etc. We all have a lot to learn from each other.

    I agree that telling rather than asking makes a big difference. It requires a change in the manner in which most women speak or have become accustomed to, but it makes a big difference. It also can remain polite and does not have to be harsh. It is as simple as saying, please do X rather than will you or can you. In the end, you will. So we should make that clear from the start!

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